The Civil War Flags Message Board

Re: MOC "Colours of the Gray" flags captured.

Hi Joe,

More below:

>>>>>I hope this helps some Bill has so many records and documtents that it will take some time for him to pull up
information resources
H. Michael Madaus
Bill Adams
Scott C. Cole whom lives just right down the road from me. he is the Author of the 34th BAttalion Virginia Cavalry ISBN -1-56190-054-0

I will start out with H. Michael Madaus whom was the worlds vexillologist on conderate flags. "expert on flags" whom is now past away. He was the man that the entire world came to when it came to battle flags."HDIC so to speak" He has several books just look his name up. Mr. Madaus and Bill Adams were very close friends.>>>>>>

I knew Howard Madaus very well myself as did some of the other posters here. I have some notes that he thought the flag was that of the 35th VA Cavalry Battalion. I have also copied the flag information from the book on the 34th VA Cavalry Battalion.

>>>>>Bill Adams is another very important person just go to the Army War College in Calise and throw his name around
and see who all knows him. Bill Adams has several articals written on the 34th Va Cav. and is highly sought after from museums all over including the British museum contacting him over the mississippi & enfield weapons.>>>>>>

I don't know Bill and will not be at Carlisle anytime soon where I also know people. It would be easier for us all if you could cite what he has.

>>>>>Here on the wiki site tells that it was the 32nd's flag captured at the battle of Toms Brook. But wait At the time the 32nd was being linked up with another unit hence the wagon. Proof look in the "OR's" official Records. Here is a link to wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_R._Hanford although they left out the information the Sgt. who found it under the seat of a supply wagon it can be found in the national records. Dont ask me what is the record # because I do not know, Like I said, all this information is from Bill and his proof of information is 2nd to none.>>>>>>

The 32nd VA Cavalry Battalion was morphed into the 42nd VA Cavalry Battalion when joined with the 40th VA Cavalry Battalion. This took place on September 24, 1863. In June 8, 1864, the command was changed to the 24th Virginia Cavalry Regiment. They were not at Tom's Brook at all. See Stewart Sifakis, Compendium of the Confederate Army: Virginia, p. 135, 137 and 143. See also Lee A. Wallace Jr, A Guide To Virginia Military Organizations 1861-1865, p. 63-64, 65 and 69.

>>>>>34th VA CAV. battle flag
Jeffery Wert wrote that the 34th flag was captured,He later retracted the statment. the 34th was 150 miles away fighting another battle beating back the Union Army when the Union Gen. was calling up for support/reenforcements. The 34ths Cav flag noone had ever had the flag nore does no one knows were it went too But It Was Not Captured. But now with saying that, refers me back to Mr. Madaus who was the worlds leading person when it came to the flags. Now the 32nd flag that came from the wagon it was a type 3 buntun flag meaning white boarders. The 34th VA Cav was a standard buntan type 2 orange boarders http://home.freeuk.net/gazkhan/blank_bunting.htm>>>>>

The flag taken at Tom's Brook (WD #171) is a Third Bunting. I know what all of the bunting issues were very well and the site you mention above stole much of Howard Madaus' research and the research of others, including me, without credit! While the 34th VA Cavalry Battalion formed in June 1862 and COULD have received a Second Bunting what is the proof of that? Since the 32nd VA Cavalry Battalion was not at Tom's Brook how could their flag be taken from any wagon that was there? As I noted already, this battalion no longer existed.

>>>>>The Official Records of the War Of The Rebellion you get on amazon
http://www.scribd.com/doc/35157251/THE-WAR-OF-THE-REBELLION-A-COMPILATION-OF-THE-OFFICIAL-RECORDS-OF-THE-UNION-AND-CONFEDERATE-ARMIES-SERIES-1-VOLUME-2>>>>>

I own the book set and the CD-Rom as well.

>>>>>Hd’qrs Cavalry Corps, A. N. Va.

December 23, 1863

Colonel: I have sent you, by express, a battle flag, which I beg to present in my name to your command as an evidence of my high appreciation of the distinguished service which, under your skillful guidance they rendered our noble cause while serving under my command. Soldiers, who have already made so proud a record on many new contested fields, I am sure will never bring dishonor upon colors committed to them by their former general, under whose eye they have acheived a distinction worthy of emulation. Though separated from my command, I shall always feel the liveliest interest in your success, and that of the brave men under you, and am assured that your ability and unflinching courage as a commander, sustained by the bravery of your men, will make for yourself a distinction, and for your men a name to which all of you may hereafter point with the manly pride that springs only from such conduct.
I am Colonel,
Very respectfully,
Your ob't servant,
J. E. B. Stuart major General.

Camp 34th Va. Battalion Jonesville, Va. January 16, 1864
At a meeting of the commissioned officers of the 34th Virginia Battilion Cavalry, Lieut. Col. V. A. Witcher in the Chair, and Adjutant Charles Edwards, Secretary; the following preamble and resolutions were unanaimously adopted:
Whereas This command has been officially informed of the presentation, through the Lieutenant Colonel commanding, of a battle flag, by Major General J. E. B. Stuart; and whereas, we have ever cherished for Gen. S. as a commander feelings of the most unalloyed respect, esteem and confidence, therefore,
1. Resolved, That we hail with pleasure and enthusiasm this manifestation of interest and confidence on the .part of our late commander, and we pledge ourselves, by the memory of the absent dead and the honor of the present living, that these colors shall be borne unsullied and their honor remain untarnished while we have a man left to defend them.
2. Resolved, That while we are widely separated from our gallant old commander, "distance only divides us," and we solemnly swear that ere this flag shall be stained with disgrace the last remains of the command shall be found beneath its tattered folds.
3. Resolved, That the heroic conduct of General Stuart on the field is equalled only by his enthusiastic love of country and his high toned character and gentlemanly courtesy in camp.
4. Resolved, That a copy of the foregoing resolution be furnished General Stuart and copies of the letter and resolution be placed on file at the office of the adjutant of this command, and also furnished the Richmond papers for publication.
Lynchburg and Abingdon papers please copy. >>>>

I have this nice letter and presentation in my file for this regiment. There may have been another flag prior to this time like one of the company colors used as the regimental banner. Again, we just do not know.

Greg Biggs

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MOC "Colours of the Gray" flags captured.
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Re: MOC "Colours of the Gray" flags captured. *NM*
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Tom's Brook - two flags!
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for Joe - 34th VA BTn repro flag
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Re: Tom's Brook - two flags!
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Re: Tom's Brook - two flags!
Re: Tom's Brook - two flags!