Once again...read my post, I did not say anything about SHAPE itself, I mention other boards and sites I had been on. I see you like quotes. Here's one for you. It's alright to have an open mind, just don't let it fall out. Another one I like is this, Herb. I was born at night, but it sure wasn't last night.

Neither do intellegent debaters need to always "bait" a poster by requesting "sources" when a conclusion is stated after a poster had come to a summatation of the facts stated after reading many "sources". In many instances sources are a combination of a life time of study of a particular study.

I agree with that completley, now tell me sir, do you apply that to yanks as well as rebs, or is it a one-way street?

One last little quote for you on the topic of civil war.

Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of York;
And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.
Now are our brows bound with victorious wreaths;
Our bruised arms hung up for monuments;
Our stern alarums changed to merry meetings,
Our dreadful marches to delightful measures.
Grim-visaged war hath smooth'd his wrinkled front

At least we yanks have hung up arms for monuments.

Chase.