Hi George,

You wrote:

"However I think Lincoln had plans all alone to free the slaves, the war was just an excuse."

The Confederacy thought the same thing.

You wrote:

"I still have a problem with rebellion, seems to me the North made the first agressive move, the South was simply defending their homes from an invading army."

I don't see which homes in the vicinity of Charleston Harbor were in danger. Lincoln notified Southern officials that he was sending supplies to Fort Sumter: "food for hungry men." The Confederacy had a decision; unfortunately, they chose war.

You wrote:

"Well in his first inaugural he says he had no intention of, to Greeley he says he is preserving the Union. He then comes out with the EP, which he had no authority to do. Either he was lying from the time he went into office or he was lying to the people of the North by this letter."

Again, take the first inaugural at its word. He had no constitutional authority, nor did he have the personal inclination to attack slavery where it existed in the Southern states. And then the war came. He did indeed have the authority to issue the Emancipation Proclamation because it was a war measure. It was issued to suppress the rebellion. Without rebellion, he would have had to right to issue it.

You wrote:

"Lincoln provoked a war that destroyed a peaceful nation and took more American lives than any other war in history."

On this point, we simply do not see eye-to-eye, but I respect your position.

You wrote:

"Fact still remains slavery was not a cause at the start of the war. Agreed?"

No. The Confederacy chose war, in part, because they believed Lincoln threatened American slavery. Don't take my word for it. Take the Confederacy at their word:

"Ours is not a revolution," said Jefferson Davis. "We are not engaged in a Quixotic fight for the rights of man; our struggle is for inherited rights." We left the Union "to save ourselves from a revolution" that threatened to make "property in slaves so insecure as to be comparitively worthless."

Vice President of the Confederacy Alexander Stephens explained that the Confederacy was formed to preserve "the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization." He said the Confederacy rejected the notion of equality in Jefferson's Declaration of Independence. "Our new government," said Stephens, "is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery--subordination to the superior race--is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first in the history of the world based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

That isn't my "interpretation" of the ideology of the Confederate leaders, those are their words.

You wrote:

"I chose to believe Davis's point because of the several points both you and I have made."

You are free to believe what you wish, I certainly respect your right to do so.

You wrote:

"Oh hold on now. We just agreed that Lincoln was not going to interfere. He said so in his first inaugural speech. A second time he tell Greeley it is to save the Union. Now you are saying that "slavery played a very large role in the American Civil War." Then the South was right in all of their fears about Lincoln? Sir you cannot play both sides of the net. We cannot take Stephens and Lincoln to their word only when it fits our argument."

In peacetime, Lincoln had no constitutional right, nor personal inclination, to interefere with slavery in the Southern states, he said as much in his first inaugural. Then the war came. He needs to crush the rebellion, thus he issued the Emancipation Proclamation as a war measure. He foresaw that some folks in the North would object to that measure, but he explained to them that he was doing so to preserve the Union.

The South was not "right in all of their fears about Lincoln." They feared that Lincoln would attack Southern slavery, but it was simply not the case. My interpretation is based on evidence. I've read Lincoln's letters and speeches for a decade now and I am convinced he had no intention of doing a complete 180 and destroy Southern slavery during his presidency. He rightly believed that he had no constitutional authority to do so.

And then the war came. The rebellion needed to be quashed, thus Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation as a war measure. Once the rebellion was over, the Emancipation Proclamation was no longer valid. The U.S. Congress then passed the 13th Amendment.

If the South wanted to keep their slaves, they should have stayed in the Union and allowed their representives in Congress to resist any abolitionist designs.

You wrote:

"Now for the Causes of secession-- Secession has not been proved illegal."

Nor was it ever legal. The war decided the question. When was the last time any state seriously threatened to secede from the Union?

You wrote:

"We have no idea under what instructions these men where called together under. At least I have never read these instructions. These are articles of secession, not war. I have read quite a bit of them. Let’s take Mississippi my home state. If you read the each article them you will see that there are just about as many articles one way as there is another. Note there is one that says "No provision is provided for the care and maintenance of freed slaves."

If you are referring to the "Declaration of Causes for Secession," which South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia, and Texas issued, you are mistaken. These four states listed the reasons they chose to secede and yes, to maintain slavery was among the reasons. Again, don't take my word for it, read them for yourself:

http://web.archive.org/web/20001018124348/members.aol.com/jfepperson/full.html

You wrote:

"Looking over the Declaration of War for the Northern States, I fail to see any state saying in any sort of manner we are fighting to free the slaves."

Again, they were not fighting to free the slaves. They were fighting to preserve the Union. The Emancipation Proclamation was issued as a war measure to preserve the Union.

Best,
Sam.