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Re: States Rights
In Response To: Re: States Rights ()

"The colonies never were independent sovereign states making treaties with foreign powers or exercising self-government."

The Republic of Vermont, 1777 to 1791.

"Most of the original colonies didn't even set up state governments until after the Declaration of Independence, making the national government predate the majority of state governments."

Which colonies and which national government?

"Articles of Association

In Congress, Philadelphia, October 20, 1774.

Signed, Peyton Randolph, President.

New Hampshire
Jno. Sullivan
Nathel. Folsom

Massachusetts Bay
Thomas Cushing
Saml. Adams
John Adams
Robt.Treat Paine

Rhode Island
Step. Hopkins
Sam: Ward

Connecticut
Elipht Dyer
Roger Sherman
Silas Deane

New York
Isaac Low
John Alsop
John Jay
Jas. Duane
Phil. Livingston
Wm. Floyd
Henry Wisner
S: Boerum

New Jersey
J. Kinsey
Wil: Livingston
Stepn. Crane
Richd. Smith
John De Hart

Pennsylvania
Jos. Galloway
John Dickinson
Cha Humphreys
Thomas Mifflin
E. Biddle
John Morton
Geo: Ross

The Lower Counties New Castle
Geo: Ross
Caesar RodneyGeo: Ross
Tho. M: KeanGeo: Ross
Geo: Read

Maryland
Mat Tilghman
Ths. Johnson Junr.
Wm. Paca
Samuel Chase

Virginia
Richard Henry Lee
Go. Washington
P. Henry Jr.
Richard Bland
Benja. Harrison
Edmd. Pendleton

North Carolina
Will Hooper
Joseph Hewes
Rd. Caswell

South Carolina
Henry Middleton
Tho Lynch
Christ Gadsden
J Rutledge
Edward Rutledge

"and they could not secede from the Confederacy (described by its founders as a "perpetual union") without the approval of all twelve of the other states."

Where does that law exist in the Articles of Confederation? It states..."Every State shall abide by the determination of the United States in Congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this Confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State." Perpetual means for ever, secession was not allowed but they did secede from the Articles of Confederation, not through congress but through the Constitutional Convention and did form a new union under the new U.S. Constitution (which has no perpetual union clause). They did not seek permission from the majority of states to secede, each on their own seceded by ratifing the U.S. Constitution...i.e. North Carolina's and Rhode Islands refusal to join for nearly two years.

____________________
David Upton

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