The Alabama in the Civil War Message Board

Re: Col Hillary A Herbert's Good Name

Roger --

Since this is Memorial Day and the reputation of a wounded veteran is involved, allow me to return to your comments about Lt Col Hilary Herbert.

"I can remember only that Josiah Spikes was mentioned by Hebert as AWOL on those two particular occasions. I do know what "Absent Without Leave" means.

Record-keeping, especially in times of war, is hectic, abbreviated and arbitrary at best. There is another kind of memory besides record-keeping. Your kinsman and mine knew, and were known, by Hebert, during the war. They talked with each other. He certainly had to know that Josiah had been exchanged and returned to the regiment, after he was captured and made a POW at Gettysburg, but Hebert did not mention that. He saw Josiah at the Battle of the Wilderness, in which both were wounded, yet he does not mention that either. He had to know that many of the wounded were transported to Danville."

Since Hilary Herbert lost part of an arm during the Wilderness fighting, I'd hestitate to say what he "had to know" about events beyond his own cot until his injuries were treated and stablized.

A word or two about long term memory, and then on to my main point. Just over three hundred classmates graduated in my high school senior class. During a four year period many of them became friends and I knew a few quite well. Others were known to me by name and face only as we passed in school hallways. If we were talking at that time or shortly afterwards, I'd recognize almost all of them. Graduation took place several decades ago. Without assistance I can't conjure up fifty names today.

You wrote, "Your kinsman and mine knew, and were known, by Hebert, during the war. They talked with each other." While it may be that my ancestor would recognize his commanding officer, I have no reason to believe that he knew Hillary Herbert except by name and reputation.

The 8th Alabama Regiment carried more than 2,000 officers and men on roll during its four-year career. Under normal service conditions, a field officer's eyes might not pass over every man in his regiment in camp or field. He certainly would not have a reason to speak with every man who belonged to each of his companies and become personally acquainted. Hillary Herbert did not write his regimental history until his tenure as Secretary of the Navy came to an end. After a lapse of nearly forty years, I see no evidence that he remembered each man who ever served in his command. Unless you have a letter or some other evidence which demonstrate that Hillary Herbert and your ancestor knew each other personally, this is simply wishful thinking.

Moving on to my main point, when I asserted earlier that Hillary Herbert used the Fowler rolls in his history of the 8th Alabama Regiment. I was wrong. Since Hillary Herbert spent so many of his adult years in Washington DC representing Alabama's 2nd Congressional District and serving as Secretary of the Navy (1893 -1897), he had ready access to War Department service records of Confederate soldiers belonging to his regiment. Hillary Herbert used those almost exclusively in his history, not the Fowler rolls at the ADAH.

Having carefully read Hillary Herbert's service record summary for your ancestor and mine (both conscripts assigned to the same company in August 1862), I see nothing there that isn't supported specifically by each soldier's service file. Unlike the record produced by Colonel Oates for this regiment (15th Alabama), there's nothing personal in these summaries. In the regimental history Hilary Herbert occasionaly mentions individual soldiers. For example, on the march to Gettysburg Herbert mentions a woman in Pennsylvania who came out to watch Anderson's Division march through town. She made herself conspicuous by displaying a U S flag emblem over her bosom.

"Madam," said Martin Riley of Co F, "you had better be particular about how you flaunt that flag; these boys are in the habit of storming breastworks whenever they see that flag flying!"
Alabama Historical Quarterly, vol 39 (1977), Colonel Hilary A. Herbert's 'History of the Eighth Alabama Volunteer Regiment, C.S.A.' edited by Maurice S. Fortin, p 114.

Service records for S J King and J S Spikes are found on pages 275 and 278. My ancestor's record is described in terms much like yours. No mention of being AWOL (not that there's anything wrong with that). If there is a different version of Hillary Herbert's work which includes his personal opinions, please let me know where you found it. I'd be very interested to locate such a document. A second history does not appear in collection of his personal letters.

http://www.lib.unc.edu/mss/inv/h/Herbert,Hilary_A.html

http://www.civilwarreference.com/people/index.php?peopleID=7398

Can you provide the HH reference that mentions AWOL &c?

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Re: Col Hillary A Herbert's Good Name
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Re: Col Hillary A Herbert's Good Name
Re: Col Hillary A Herbert's Good Name
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Re: Col Hillary A Herbert's Good Name
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