The Civil War Flags Message Board

Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA

Gregg
.. Thanks for chiming in... can you provide any further insight or information upon the flag or validity thereof in Rollins book claimed to be the 14th Va's 2nd Bunting, reportedly in an unnamed private collection ?... If the MOC recorded color guard account is accurate then they did have their Pickett style flag in use at Gettysburg?...

In previous research on this and noting that the Pickett Style unit id flag of the 14th Va was still in the field post-Gettysburg, I first assumed it might not have been captured at G'Burg at all. Rollins book makes claim that the 2nd Bunting/Seven Pines flag is that of the 14th Va lost that day. Since it was known that several other regiments of Picketts Division were still using their previously issued flags and not the new ones, it appeared to be a feasible analogy. The 14th did have an earlier flag and was in the fight at Seven Pines, so this particular 2nd bunting flag in question seemed reasonable.

As previously mentioned the initial OR's captured flag listings are full of misidentification and errors. Unfortunately many of the follow up subordinate reports and even later unit memoirs echoed the same given incorrect listings. Also of note is the issue of officers of one unit taking the flag out of soldiers hands captured by another unit, to claim for their own unit, which was a big scandal in the ranks. The chain of possession gets muddy when those that were turned in arrived at Hancocks HQ... when they were piled up all together... One officer reportedly came back asking if they could get the flags back they had captured for a short time then turn them back in later for whatever reason.. .The officer at hancocks HQ said they are all piled up over there go pick out a couple... The hoards of claims of heroic encounters of mortal hand to hand combat and/or captures with their color bearer or a ranking officer with it... then in deeper research others so witnessing the same event saying hogwash.. the flag was found abandoned on the field or leaning against a tree etc etc... Each person or unit trying to obviously embellish their own heroic status further than what they might have actually done. All these issues at hand making an accurate record of who did what and with who's flag is seriously a challenge to unravel.

The claims of the 19th Mass on this flag I had serious doubts thereof. Nothing else added up to give credibility to the reported account. No such unit ID'd flag claimed showed up on any later listings nor War Dept listing, nor surviving as captured at G'burg. The only unit ID flag they ever had was still in use after Gettysburg to be lost later at Five Forks. The 14th Va and 19th Mass werent even in the same area of the battle. Especially during the clash at the wall at the angle when it would/should have been lost. Color Sgt Thomas Shifflet reportedly had the colors of the 14th Va in his hands during the attack. He was shot below the left eye as he was crossing over the wall. He fell seriously wounded and unconcious but survived. He personally didnt know what or where the flag went after that given moment.

In the modern civil war art print "Clubs or Trumps" the subject of the painting obviously taken upon the reported flag capture by the 19th Mass... is deplicted direct collision and hand to hand combat between the 19th Mass and the 14th Va, at Gettysburg which never actually occured... The 14th Va struck the wall near the two ends between the 71 and 69th PV... They were involved in the high water mark melee that occured just over the wall... Several companies of the 14th and 9th Va on their right started to push towards the next Federal battery on their right. The Artillery response with double canister at near point blank range ended that ambious endevor with disasterous results. The attack quickly crumbled, the second Federal line comprising of the 72nd and 106th PV immediately at that point in the line, finally surged forward and those of the 14th that hadnt been enveloped quickly made a hasty retreat back. The 14th Va lost over half their number that day.

Frederick

Messages In This Thread

CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA
Re: CS arty battalion flag/14th VA