The Indian Territory in the Civil War Message Board

Re: Chusto Talasah (Caving Banks)

This is fascinating information. I would be interested in how this can be corroborated or reconciled with other sources. In my own experience and opinion, folk lore becomes less and less accurate and reliable over time. Therefore, it is terribly important that these stories be recorded, researched, reconciled, etc. to the extent possible before they eventually become lost.

It is claimed that cannon balls have been found on the supposed battlefield. I did not recall that artillery participated in this battle.

It is surprising to me that the 1896 survey maps and the Cherokee Allotment maps do not show a "horseshoe" where the current horseshoe is located. There is a significant bend but the shape is quite angular and very different than the distinctive horseshoe shape it has now.

Historians of the battle contradict each other -- some claiming the cabin was on the west side and others the east. Robert DeMoss insists that Cooper was on the west side of Bird Creek having crossed near the mouth of Hominy Creek.

Where is the "crossing spot" of Bird Creek? I would assume that the falls (shoal) below the Hwy 11 bridge were a crossing point. Where are the other "hard bottom" crossings in the vicinity?

There are two accounts which would suggest that the battle (or some portion of the fighting) was not fought on Bird Creek but instead on Delaware Creek to the southwest. Of course, the fighting from start to finish probably covered a large area.

Below are pictures taken in the summer (obviously) from the northeast of the horseshoe bend. The banks at this point were steep and difficult and somewhat obscured by the greenery. Perhaps from where I parked my car to the water might have been a 20-foot change but these are not the vertical banks you see at Pawhuska, for example. Still, this would have been practically impossible for a large mounted group to cross -- few riders and/or horses would attempt it and without a hard bottom a few horses would turn the banks it into a quagmire.

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