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Re: Union vs Constitution
In Response To: Re: Union vs Constitution ()

"I am not doubting your information, just pointing out that if you are going to impeach someone's information and counter, you should source that."

The information is very accessable and I do not believe you don't have the ability to confirm my dates on your own. My sourcing common knowledge for every fact in this debate is not the issue.

"The term perpetual means ongoing, as in the union was not formed for a finite term, say 10 years or a hundred years. It was to continue unless the states modified it or withdrew"

Your translation of 18th Century words is not quite correct- and again misleading.

From a period dictionary---"A Dictionary of the English Language" By Samuel Johnson, 3rd Edition, London, 1768

PERPETUAL, a.[perpetuel, Fr. perpetuus, Lat.] 1. Never ceasing; eternal with respect to futurity. 2. Continual; uninterrupted; perennial Arbuthnot. 3. Perpetual screw. A screw which acts against the teeth of a wheel, and continues its action without end. Wilkins.

Your adding concepts that do not exist in the AOC or history.

North Carolina and Rhode Island did not exit the AOC prior to their dates of ratification- there is no clause in the AOC that states such an event; unless a document exist where during the period between 1787 and their dates of ratification of the U.S. Constitution proving that relation altered.

Your also misreading my post from the Supreme Court. It states that

A. "it will appear that the States, individually, regulated their foreign commerce and duties, and were in this respect foreign sovereigns to each other, and they maintained this relation until the adoption of the Constitution of the United States." -

B. "the position of North Carolina and of Rhode Island was that of foreign Slates, as to the United States, and they were so treated by the Congress of the United States, under the Constitution."

C. "Rhode Island and North Carolina were, therefore, until they adopted the Constitution of the United States, foreign to the United States, and to the laws of Congress, and were outside of all provisions in regard to commerce and duties unless expressly named in the statutes of Congress."

In statement A- pertains to the laws of the AOC and their relations in foreign commerce and duties and that they contintued under this law until they adopted the U.S. Constitution.
In statement B and C and all the rest of the statements it never states Rhode Island or North Carolina independent of each other nor does it say they where in or out of the AOC- only how they were in relation to the United States- foreign.

There were two unions and two sets of government.

________________________
David Upton

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