Paul, I couldn't agree more. Rousseau's noble savage is a myth, nothing more nothing less. When I was a boy, Indians were always the bad guy, now they are always the good guy...wrong...sorry there grandpa...lol...their ethos was much bloodier that the average white (every listen to the average white band?)..lol..There were peaceful Indians, then you have warriors like the Sioux. The thing is once the Indian Wars started across the Mississippi, you can't hardly name me a battle, that other Indians didn't help whites against other Indians. It wasn't about Manifest Destiny, it was because they hated them more because of wrongs they had done. I will give a similarity on this board...you and I are Yanks, but our friend Martin is from the South...Kentucky...yet his people fought for the union also? Why? Slavery? Tariffs? the Constitution...please, like farmers all over America were memorizing the Constitution...nope, because other southerners killed, raped and robbed his family, and they wore gray, so our friend's family fought for the Blue (good choice, Martin lol)..one thing about the matter, had the Indian Culture won..with their technology, almost impossible...we wouldn't be having this thread, they never invented a written Language, yes I know about the Cherokees, but who did they copy that from? You can get statistics to support anything. You do know what Disraeli said about that...let me give you one...people speak of blacks killed during Reconstruction in the South and yeah some sure were hanged for a fact, did you know that since the 60's after every three year period more whites have been killed and assaulted by blacks than blacks were ever assaulted during Reconstruction in the South...facts are funny things.