Ben,

Right on target! I know a couple police detectives and they propose theories all the time and test them to see if they hold up based on evidence they find or do not find. Finally when they get more than enough to indict they do so. Scientists do the same thing in three stages (I was pretty good at science) - hypothesis, then theory after the first level tests OK and finally law of science which is when you get irrefutable evidence to support the theory. Newton's Law of Gravity is a Law of science; Einstein's Theory of Relativity remains a theory (although it works well enough to split atoms we do not have the technology to prove it as a Law of science) as does the Theory of Evolution (species do evolve within their order of phyla - they have not been conclusively proven to evolve between the ten order of phyla which is why it remains a theory. Single celled animals are Phyla One; Humans are Phyla Ten).

Not only did Ken state things that I did not state but he also misinterpreted what I stated involving the payroll vouchers at the National Archives. They are on my list of things to do there someday. If he or anyone else gets to them before me and goes through them and finds things then so much the better. I have never stated that I was not interested in doing this research; I only suggested that he go as it might answer his questions. He travels far more than I do for flags research.

Nor did I ever state that "some guy told me..." It was a well known uniforms expert Les Jensen that told me this some years ago - and he is how I found out that these payroll vouchers even existed in the first place as he has been through some of them looking for things on uniforms of the Richmond Depot. This is NOT hearsay! I mentioned Robert Davis going through the vouchers for the Macon Depot to show that these vouchers do have things of interest to us as flag researchers if the time is taken to go through them, but this comment was also taken totally out of its context.

I guess if you want to call Les a lair about these vouchers be my guest. I won't and have no reason to do so. He saw what he saw.

With regards to Howie's theory, if you do not like it then prove him wrong with your own evidence. Bashing his conclusions is not proving him wrong. We know that the Richmond Depot, subject to bunting supplies as were all of the other flag making depots, made Fourth Bunting flags from May through September 1864. Howie believed that the Staunton Depot made their flags around July 1864. We also know that in addition to a different cloth being used for the borders of the ANV style flags and the white fields of the Second Nationals, that the crosses of the ANV style flags from Staunton are narrower than anything coming from Richmond at the time and, in the case of the Second National flags, they lack the white fimbration going around the outer edges of the blue cross. If you understand mass production techniques, and these flags were indeed mass produced, then you should know that you do not make different types of flags during their run time frame; you make the same type of flags. It is easier, cheaper and faster to do it this way. I have worked in the business world since 1971 including corporate middle management and keeping costs down and production high is a Law of business; therefore keeping production of your product the same for its entire run is the only intelligent way to do it.

So if these flags did not come from Staunton - and I do not believe they came from Richmond - then where were they from? And why are they only equipping units serving in the Valley army whose main supply depot was.....STAUNTON??????? (as of 1862 and even more from 1863 onward). I would suggest reading Richard Goff's book "Confederate Supply" to understand the CS QM depot system as he covers that in detail.

It is really too bad that the documents from this depot are missing as are the Richmond Depot production books for 1863, 1864 and 1865 at the National Archives. I also wish I had engaged Howie a lot more on these flags but never got around to doing so.

Greg Biggs